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John Doe shines the light on songwriting poetry and the creative process

X founder featured in a Park City Song Summit lab

For information about the Park City Song Summit, visit parkcitysongsummit.com. For information about John Doe, visit theejohndoe.com.
Singer, songwriter and punk-rock pioneer John Doe enters the Lodges Sunburst Tent at the Lodges at Deer Valley on Thursday afternoon to participate in a Park City Song Summit lab.
David Jackson/Park Record

John Doe, guitarist, and one of the singers and songwriters for the pioneering Los Angeles-based punk rock band X, spent quite a bit of time Wednesday during his “Hungry Wolf” lab discussion at the Park City Song Summit talking about the art of songwriting.

He answered a question about what it takes to write poetic lyrics, posed by moderator Liz Schulte, a Salt Lake City-based punk and ska music expert and host of KRCL’s “Rude Awakening” program.

“You’re born into it, or it’s something you have to develop and work on,” Doe said. “You have to pay attention to detail, and you have to remember that detail and stop what you’re doing and write it down. You (also) have to have that channel open enough to hear it, but likely if you sit down to do something, you have to sit there for a long time.”



Doe talked about how his approach to writing differs from his X bandmate, Exene Cervenka, whom he met at the Beyond Baroque poetry workshop in Venice, California, in 1976.

You’re still working with a very traditional form — verse, chorus — and still telling stories…” John Doe, singer and songwriter

“I think Exene is a natural-born poet,” he said. “She has a love of language, and a lot of the lyrics she writes have a lot of wordplay. Exene is a born writer. She learned a lot from her sister, and we influenced each other but we held ourselves to a high standard.”



Doe brought up the song “A New World,” that Cervenka wrote for the band’s 1983 album, “More Fun in the New World.”

“It wasn’t just going to be about ‘Ronald Reagan sucks,’” he said. “Exene wrote the song about the Reagan era. She gave me a piece of paper, and it was all there. I just made up the music. We did a little edit, but she never even mentioned his name.”

On the other hand, Doe went to school to learn how to write poetry, and his first dip into college was at George Washington University in Washington, D.C.

“I went to lame university for my first year and then quit for a while,” he said. “It was close to Baltimore, so I thought I’d go there. It seemed prestigious, but I didn’t have a clue. It seemed like a total waste of time.”

After a while, Doe enrolled in one of the branches of Antioch College.

“They had all of these branches in Baltimore, and all the classes were at night,” he said.

The teacher of his class was Grace Cavalieri, who is now Maryland’s Poet Laureate.

“I recently reconnected with her, and she’s turning 90,” he said. “I do a poetry Zoom meeting with her and other poets from Baltimore. (And) you have to come up with something new once a month.”These days when Doe writes songs, he is driven more by inspiration.

“I’ve learned enough to make something out of it,” he said. “Sometimes it doesn’t work, and other times it does.”

The catch, he said, is not falling into traps that seem “too crafty.”

“There are some really popular, famous and well-regarded songwriters who write the title (of a song) at the top of their page, and go, ‘Hmmm. What is that going to be?, but as soon as you read the title, you know what the rest of the poem or song will be,” he said. “There’s no discovery. No left turns. No flights of fancy. No surrealism. It’s like seeing a trailer of a crappy movie.”

Although Doe still records and performs with X, he has also established himself in the country and folk scene as a solo artist and a member of the country-folk-punk band, The Knitters.

Doe said writing folk and country songs is pretty much the same as writing songs for X.

“It’s just that punk rock is louder and faster, but you’re still working with a very traditional form — verse, chorus — and still telling stories,” he said. “That is where punk-rock and Americana or (other) people who have punk-rock bands transition into more country-influenced stuff.”

Schulte asked what Doe explores when writing songs other than the ones he writes for X.

“It depends on what record I’m doing,” he said. “I think every band, every song or record or piece of art medium should have some kind of time or place or smell and imagery and story. Even if it doesn’t have a beginning, middle and end. It can just be plopped down in a moment. And maybe that moment is how you describe it in three minutes or 1 ½ minutes, if you’re the Circle Jerks.”

During the panel, Doe talked about his books “Under the Big Black Sun,” and its Grammy Award-nominated follow-up, “More Fun In the New World,” which were both co-written with long-time music industry insider Tom DeSavia.

While the first book was about the L.A. punk scene from 1977 to 1983, the second also focused on the influence punk had on others, and included essays by artist Shepard Fairey, filmmaker Allison Anders, actor Tim Robbins and pro-skater Tony Hawk.

Doe also discussed his film and TV work, including roles in “Great Balls of Fire!” “Roadside Prophets,” “Boogie Nights” and “Law & Order.” And he talked about X’s album, “Alphabetland” which was released in 2020.

“That was a long time coming,” he said. “We didn’t have all the elements set up before. And in this stage of life, you’re not going to put time and effort into something that has no outlet.”

But the outlet opened when the band procured producer Robert Schnapf, who is known for his work with the late Elliot Smith, and made an agreement with Fat Possum Records.

“You have something to prove if you have the outlet,” Doe said. “And some cynical songwriters will say the song doesn’t mean (spit) unless somebody covers it or licenses it. I heard that a few times, and that’s horrifying — to think that the only reason you’re doing it is to make money on it. If that is the only reason, then you should quit.”

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